Photo : • Bello
Senator Kanti Bello represented Katsina North Senatorial District
between 2003 and 2011. The erstwhile chieftain of the Peoples Democratic
Party (PDP), who recently defected to the Congress for Progressive
Change (CPC), believes that the time for change in government of the
country has come. In this interview with Sunday Independent, the
engineer-turned-politician argues, among other issues of national
importance, that PDP has no single reason to remain in office beyond
2015 at the national level. Excerpts…
Recently, you announced your defection from the PDP to CPC. Have you been fully admitted into CPC?
My friend, I am already an old member of CPC. And I have been fully
integrated into the party. In fact, when I joined the party, I was even
given a national assignment from the party. If you could remember, I
chaired the screening and reconciliation committee for the Kaduna State
Local government elections for CPC. So, given that enormous
responsibility, everybody knows that I am really a full-fledged member
of the party. And I have started contributing my quota to the best of my
ability to the party.
So, it is goodbye to the PDP?
Well, I have packed.
How does it feel like leaving the ruling party?
Very few of us have the guts to do that, because, you see, to leave
the ruling party, you must make sure that you have no bad issues,
especially with what is happening now. I mean, we all remember some of
the circumstances of some people, in even making their personal views
known, getting into trouble. For instance, the former national chairman
of PDP, when he started saying there is zoning, the next thing we heard
was the man being charged with something worth N10 million that he was
involved in over 10 years ago. But some of us happen to be reasonably
clean enough to say our minds and move for the interest of the country. I
am not in politics for personal gains. If I am there for personal
gains, perhaps, I am looking for position, or I am looking for some sort
of appointment from Jonathan’s government or I am there either to be a
chairman of a board or something or I am looking for contract, then I
will not leave the party. But thank God I have passed that stage of my
life. I have no bad issues to carry. My only interest in politics is to
help the people and see that this country becomes greater, and
contribute my quota to the best of my ability. Of course, the ultimate
success is from Allah. But the truth of the matter is that we need to
effect a change in this country. Anybody who is sensible, who is
reasonable, who is patriotic, ought to move away from PDP, because as a
system, as a party, PDP has totally failed. And you cannot change it.
The merger arrangement is getting to an advanced stage, particularly
among the key opposition political parties – the CPC, ACN and perhaps
the ANPP. As a matter of fact, each of these parties has constituted a
committee to this effect. Are you sure the current effort by the
opposition to dismantle PDP in 2015 will work because such previous
moves towards merger had failed?
As far as I am concerned as a member of CPC, the only merger I know
that is in existence and to which our party is discussing, based on an
earlier discussion, which has already gone a long way, is between the
CPC and Action Congress of Nigeria (ACN). A long time ago, there was a
sort of agreement on the party logo, party flag and things like that.
They have all been sorted out between ACN and CPC. As far as I know, as a
member of CPC, our party has put a team to negotiate with ACN, not with
any other party. I hope this is very clear. So, the negotiation or,
rather, our crossing of ‘T’s and dotting of ‘I’s is between ACN and CPC,
which I hope will work if these two parties should merge. If later ANPP
comes on board somehow, somehow, fine; there will no problem. But we
have gone so far to start going back again to the drawing board trying
to discuss how, which type of logo, what is the name of the party? All
these things have been concluded. The name and the logo of the party are
already agreed upon earlier, and our leader has already stated this.
What is the name agreed upon?
I can’t say it. But the truth is that these are some of the early
agreements between CPC and ACN that have not been made public. So, I
have no right to say anything about that. The only thing I want to
assure you is that the merger is between ACN and CPC. That is what I can
tell you for now.
How do you think the merger between the CPC and ACN can work without
carrying along the ANPP? A top member of the ANPP, former Governor of
Yobe State, Senator Abba Bukar, was reported to have said that if there
must be merger, the name ANPP must be retained and the ACN and CPC would
have to collapse into the ANPP on the ground that the ANPP has been the
oldest party. How would you comment on this?
Who is talking about merging with ANPP anyway? It is just wishful
thinking. I think the man is out of touch. Is it not Bukar Abba? I think
he is out of touch. He doesn’t know what he is doing. Let Nigerians
know that the merger talk is purely between ACN and CPC. So, the issue
of whether ANPP is the oldest opposition party is not it at all. Why do
you have to wait for an old man when you, a vibrant young man, and
another vibrant young woman are trying to get a full-fledged marriage?
Why should an old man come in and start trying to be a suitor? It is
unnecessary. I don’t want to take up any issue with ANPP. They have
every right to discuss what they want to discuss. They have every right
to even put up conditions for anybody who wants to merge with them. But
as far as I know, my party, CPC, is discussing merger, which has gotten
to an advanced stage, with ACN. And God’s willing, if this materialises,
as I believe, this country’s problem is over. CPC is a major party; it
is a very big party in the North. CPC won elections considerably in 14
states of the North. And we have ACN controlling about eight states. If
in the process, ANPP wants to join as individual, let them be. But for
them to be putting conditions and all these things, I think it is
unnecessary. I don’t want to take up any issue with them because we are
not even discussing merger with them. So, let them not distract our
attention. Our attention is simply between ACN and CPC. That is where
the merger is. Whether somebody is the oldest is their business. You are
running for something that is important, you need energetic people, not
elderly people who are already about to quench.
The PDP at the moment remains the ruling party and controls the
resources of the country. Do you think there is any amount of resources
that ACN and CPC, and whichever party that later joins the merger, can
put together to withstand the PDP?
You see, this is where people are wrong. Our leader, Muhammadu
Buhari, has said it clearly. But people are not listening. He said we
haven’t got the police force. We have not got the security agents.
Neither have we got the resources. Do you know what we have? We have
God. We have Allah with us. We have the people. And you see, it is not a
question of resources any more in this country. You are thinking of
resources that during election, money will be dished out. That is not
the type of resources people have been talking about. Our party has not
got that type of money, because it is only controlling one state. It is
only the small state of Nasarawa that is under CPC. So, even from that
state, we are not even looking at Governor Al Makura to come and give us
anything. What we are saying is that this CPC is a party for the
people. And you see, normal ideology comes in. I left PDP to join CPC,
not because I am looking for money. But I want freedom. I want change in
this country. The moment we start thinking every time that it is money,
it is money; then, we are finished. Can the money that you will be
given during election solve the insecurity problem in the country? Can
it solve your power situation? Can it solve the problems in the
education system? Can it make your factories to start working? What you
need is a leadership change. You need a focused government. You need
somebody who has something to offer to the nation. And that is why this
merger is very important. It is not just for money. Nobody is talking
about resources. We haven’t got resources to squander. Of course, we
know they are prepared to further squander the country’s resources. N2.6
trillion went down the drain, whether it was for election or whatever,
during fuel subsidy; we don’t know where it is. There are so many
businesses of government that have been crippled and nobody knows how it
happened. Till now, nobody is being prosecuted for it. So, we need to
change this country. Look, I cry for this country. I love this country.
And every patriotic Nigerian citizen must join this merger. They must
buy the idea, so that we fight together to salvage this country from the
clutches of these people, because this country is being choked. We need
to give it oxygen. This is the situation.
Currently, there is a kind of internal crisis within the PDP that
seems to be causing division in the party, all geared towards 2015. Is
this giving the opposition a kind of joy and do you see it as an
advantage to your cause?
I wouldn’t call it a joy. But you see, PDP as a party is completely
undisciplined. It is dictatorial. Look at me, at my age when I ran the
election in 2011, I lost. I went to court. Tribunal ruled that the
election should be repeated. And somehow, somewhere, one judge called
Amina Augie decided that it was a pre-election, though it was a
qualification matter. But despite my loss, I helped Ibrahim Shema, the
governor of Katsina State, to win the election, because I was still in
the party then. But what happened when he won? From that day, I became
his enemy, for no reason. I cannot tell you now what I had done wrong to
that man (Shema). He doesn’t like me anymore. He doesn’t want to
discuss any party issue with me. He doesn’t call me for meetings. Do you
know that I am somebody who won election four times in my senatorial
zone? When Shema came to constitute his local government, he couldn’t
even give me a councillor out of 106 in that zone because of greed. He
appointed everybody for himself because he wanted to take charge of
local government and do whatever he likes with their money. Well, I am
not bothered. Even if he had given me, I would have still left PDP
anyway, because I am a firm believer in the need for change in this
country. I am not in politics to make personal profit; I am in politics
to add value to the lives of the people. That is very clear. It is not
personal. I am not there for personal gain. I am in politics for what I
believe in. And it is my belief that PDP as a party has failed. So, all
this question about their struggling and fighting, after all, there is
no system in the party. Do you remember what happened just about two or
three years back? In the constitution of PDP, it was very clear that
there is zoning. And the constitution is just a divine law of the party.
And if a constitution is not followed in a party, what kind of a party
is that. Though, there is that provision, Jonathan came and said he
wanted to contest. He refused to honour that provision and there are
still sycophantic people enough to follow him. From then on, PDP as a
party, for me, lost its integrity. It lost its focus. And I don’t
believe in that party anymore from that day. So, all these problems you
see, all these infightings will necessarily occur because there is no
system in the party.
Still talking about the ACN/CPC merger – the opposition’s struggle to
tackle PDP, who is likely to be the candidate that will emerge from the
merger that you think will be able to match whoever PDP presents in the
2015 presidential election?
The issue is very simple. We have not yet reached that stage. But
commonsense dictates that there is no reason we could not ask Buhari to
run again. Do you know why? The critical problem of this country is
corruption. Whether you agree with me or not, but that is the fact.
Everyday you look into your papers, it is one stealing or another. There
is no day of the week you look at the papers that you will not see
somebody stealing something. It is only in this country that somebody
can just take away billions of naira and even trillions, and nothing
will be done to him. What type of country are we running? It is just
like when you give your wife two chickens to cook for you, and all of a
sudden, you come in and discover that the cook has eaten one of the
chickens. You know, it is quite amazing that the country is so corrupt.
You need somebody, who people see as completely straightforward and not
corrupt. Nigerians believe that Buhari is a straightforward fellow that
is not corrupt. And since you know the cancer, then we should try and
get the chemotherapy medicine to remove it. And the chemotherapy in this
case is Buhari. So, commonsense dictates for now and for what we are
trying to do for this country, Buhari should be the appropriate person
to field. I think it would be a wise decision if the merger presents
Buhari. But I am not saying that it must be Buhari. But I think it
should be a wise decision. I am just making my own opinion.
Even if it is true as you said that Buhari is not corrupt, have you
forgotten that he is going with people in the running of his government,
if he becomes President of the country?
I agree with you. He needs a team around him to make sure that we get
the right economic policies that will pave way for the enhancement of
our industrial base, to ensure adequate power supply, to overhaul our
educational and healthcare systems. But he cannot do it alone. However,
you see the critical aspect of Nigeria today, the cancer, what everybody
knows; unless, you remove it, Nigeria cannot move forward. And that is
corruption. So, you need somebody who can tackle the corruption for at
least four years. Look at (Nelson) Mandela when he came in; he is old
enough. But South Africa needs somebody as an icon of anti-apartheid.
So, they put him forward. Nigeria needs an anti-corruption crusader. So,
we have to put Buhari there for at least four years. It is very, very
important for this country, because we need to give an antidote to this
corrupt practice that is going on in government today. Let me tell you
something, if by Allah’s wish, Buhari is sworn in on May 29, 2015, by
May 30, all these stealing and the taking away of our money would stop
automatically, because of the mere fact that they know that this is a
no-nonsense person that is not corrupt. All the uselessness and
wastefulness going on are centred on corruption. The local government
monies are being abused and stolen. There are so many allegations that
the governors are misusing their funds. There is the pension scheme,
where money has been stolen. Everywhere, even in printing and minting,
money has been stolen. Everywhere, it is stealing, stealing, stealing!
Therefore, you need somebody that when you see him as the President,
people will know, even without being told, that stealing is over. That
is why we need him. This is simply my own advice. I am just advising.
Let me make it very clear that the merger did not say it is going to be
Buhari. But I am only advising the merger when it comes, in my own
opinion.
In the current effort of the National assembly to further review and
amend the Constitution, Local Government (LG) autonomy is one of the
cardinal items listed for consideration. Many believe that the control
of LG finances vested in the hands of the state governors via the
state/local government joint account is an aberration that must be
corrected. This position was strongly canvassed by majority of
participants at the public sessions conducted by the two arms of NASS.
What is your own considered view on this matter?
You see, that is the wish of Nigerians. And every right-thinking
person will see to it. Katsina State where I come from is the second
poorest because we have no industrial base; our economy is a rural
economy. And the bulk of the money that comes to the local government is
from where people get a little better. But when the governor is not
giving enough funds to the local government, then you find that the
economy of the local areas has become very much lower and worse. But the
issue is this: there has been a lot of clamour for autonomy of the
local government; that is natural. Any right-thinking person will think
that is the best way. But we should start with two things. If I were in
the National Assembly, the first thing I would do is to scrap the state
independent electoral commissions (SIECs). Let the national electoral
body, Independent National Electoral Commission (INEC), conduct all
elections. I am not saying (Prof. Attahiru) Jega is a good man; but I
believe he is better. INEC is a little better than SIEC. One of the
reasons corruption is going on in the local government is that in every
state, because of corruption that is going on in the local governments –
there is no exception in all the states of the federation – you find
whenever there is election, it is the ruling party in the state that
wins every seat. Why don’t we Nigerians sit down and ask why? You can’t
tell me that the local people in one little ward cannot see a very good
person who is not in the ruling party that they can vote for as
councillor. They can do that. But you find that even councillorship, it
is the ruling party that is winning. The reason is that election is not
taking place. And since election is not taking place, it is simply
appointment. That is why the governors could find it easy, even after
election, to control the local government chairmen and the councillors.
They themselves know that they didn’t win any election, and so, they
know that they have no mandate whatsoever, and that is why they too have
no option than to dance to the tune of the governors. When I was in the
National Assembly, I moved for the scrapping of state electoral body,
so that we just have one body conducting all elections in the country.
But the unfortunate thing is that the opposition then strongly kicked
against it. I can remember my very good friend, (Olorunnimbe) Mamora and
co were against it; they argued that if you give it to the federal, the
local government will be rigged out in the states where the opposition
parties are in control. This, to my mind, is very naïve thinking,
because once we start thinking that way, this country can never develop.
Out of patriotism, the first thing you do is to make sure you remove
the state electoral bodies. Please, remove them because it is important.
Then, if you do that, you have made the first step. Do you know why the
joint account is not working? It is not because the governors are too
powerful. It is because even those that are supposed to question it are
not elected. If you fully elect somebody under CPC, for instance in
Katsina, and he knows he won his election, and Governor Shema is from
PDP, the governor cannot take his money. He will go to court. The joint
account is clear. What it says is that the state assemblies should
disburse the money. But the state assemblies are not doing their job. If
they are doing their job, this joint account thing is not wrong. People
are mistaken about this joint account and local government autonomy. It
is not a question of local government autonomy – local government has
autonomy; it is in the Constitution. We have this problem because the
people running local governments are not elected. So, it is not just a
question of joint account.
DailyIndependent