Are you satisfied with the security situation in the country is being handled?
No I am not. I think it could be handled a lot better and I am deeply
disappointed by the fact that our government has not been able to get a
grip of the situation that we are facing in our country today. Boko
Haram is waging a brutal war against the Nigerian state and the response
from the government has been to pamper them and almost encourage them
in the killing of Nigerians by consistently attempting to reach out to
them. We have a government that keeps talking about dialogue even though
though the islamist terrorists that they are appealing to
keep telling them that they will not engage in any dialogue unless the
President becomes a muslim and unless he gives them whatever it is that
they are looking for. I think that the attitude of our government has
left a lot to be desired. All we see is the display of weakness. And as
we all know weakness attracts nothing but aggression from the enemy. So
that’s basically it. The more our government exhibits nothing but
weakness, the more aggressive and daring Boko Haram will get. I am
deeply concerened and I am pleased that President Olusegun Obasanjo and
General Ibrahim Babangida have come together and launched a new
initiative in order to try to help resolve the issue. The situation is
terrible yet the bitter truth is that the buck stops with no-one but the
C-in-C [Commander in Chief], President Goodluck Jonathan. He
should have taken the kid gloves off long ago and allowed the Nigerian
military to play a much more forceful and active role right from the
start. He should have nipped it in the bud. Obasanjo did this when
he took decisive action and put a stop to terrorism, murder and
insurgency in the Niger Deltan town of Odi many years ago. He did what
needed to be done to ensure that the violent ethnic militias of that
day that sought to create problems for us in our country were suppressed
and defeated. We have not seen any serious initiative like that from
the Jonathan administration in the last two years since it came to
power and I am very worried about that.
What is your response to recent comments by the Ijaw national
leader, Chief Edwin Clark, that concern your activity as Minister of
Aviation and some other national figures who you have worked with?
Amusement and pity. Chief E.K. Clark attracts my pity far more than he
does my anger. First of all let’s talk about what he said about me. He
accused me of ''embezzling'' 6.5 billion naira of the
19.5 billion Aviation Intervention Fund in 2006. What he didn't know
before he spoke was that that money had disappeared before I became
Minister of Aviation and that when I got there I was the one that
discovered that it was missing and that reported the matter to Mr.
President. Needless to say I reject Chief Clark's
absurd allegations. Four days after his speech I wrote my formal
response to him in a newspaper article in which I listed all the facts.
The essay was titled ''Chief E.K. Clark and His Moral Icons'', it
was published in virtually every newspaper in the country and it is all
over the internet. If anyone wants to know what I had to say about
Chief E.K. Clark's absurd allegations they should just google the title.
I am not prepared to go any further than that because the matter is sub
judice but needless to say he was speaking utter rubbish about a matter
that he knows nothing about. I think it is inappropriate for somebody
of his age and standing to start pronouncing guilt on people and
indulging in libel and slander. And it was not just me that he
targetted. He listed about six or seven other people who he pronounced
guilty of crimes which no court of law has convicted them for. This is
not just unjust and unfair but it is also uncivilised. It is not
done. Our country is not Idi Amin’s Uganda or Emperor Jean Bokassa’s
Central Africa Republic. This is Nigeria and the rule of law is in place
here. Even an accused person has constitutional rights and the law says
we are innocent until proven guilty. Given his age I
would have expected Chief E.K. Clark to be more circumspect, more
decent and more restrained than he was on that occassion. I did not
expect him to start playing the role of the judge, the prosecutor
and the jury.
He attacked others as well and cast aspersions on their character by
linking some of them to Boko Haram. He spoke about President Olusegun
Obasanjo my boss. He spoke about General Babangida, General Buhari,
Asiwaju Bola Tinubu, PastorTunde Bakare, Vice President Atiku Abubakar
and many others and I find it outrageous and unacceptable for someone of
that age and standing to be speaking about such distinguished people in
this way. This was an unprovoked attack and it is not what we expect
from an elderstatesman. By way of contrast a few months
ago I attended the 50th birthday celebration lecture of my
friend Sam Nda Isaiah and I marveled at the wonderful ex-tempore speech
that a true elder statesman by the name of Alhaji Maitama Sule delivered
without any notes, any script, any prompting or any help from anyone.
He was a Minister in the First Republic, a man of unimpeachable
character and credentials, a man that everyone loves and respects and
someone that has been a star and a constant factor in Nigerian politics
for many decades. And when he made that passionate and powerful speech
he encouraged and inspired everyone in the audience and everyone in the
country from both the old and new generation. He spoke about
our history, he spoke about our present and he spoke about our future as
a nation. His speech moved the whole audience and he rekindled our hope
in Nigeria. He made us remember and appreciate our own potentials
regardless of the challenges that we are going through as a nation. He
was inspiring. That is what we expect from an elder statesman. We do not
expect an elder statesman to behave the way that Chief E.K.Clark
behaved on that shameful occassion at the Nigerian Institute of Advanced
Legal Studies. We do not expect an elder statesman to mount a stage
in front of a live audience and on live television in front of millions
of people and start indicting and slandering others, defaming people
that were not there to defend themselves with impugnity, making
unsubstantiated allegations, pronouncing guilt and making wild and
baseless allegations against former public servants, leaders and former
Heads of State.
Let me be a little more specific. He said that Boko Haram started under
President Olusegun Obasanjo in 2002 and this is simply not true.
Chief E.K. Clark was either being economical with the truth there or
he was just downright ignorant of it. The islamist terrorist
organisation called Boko Haram did not begin it's deadly operations,
bombing campaigns and cold blooded mass murders whilst President
Olusegun Obasanjo was in power. There may have been some other local
insurgencies and there may have been some other local militias in some
states at that time but not Boko Haram. Boko Haram did not start with
Obasanjo. And if it had started with Obasanjo, if it were the way it is
today, Obasanjo would have known what to do about it. So I completely
reject Clark's assertion. As a proud member of the
Obasanjo administration, I think it is most unfair for him to in anyway
cast any aspersions on Obasanjo’s character or question his ability to
handle such issues by suggesting that the Boko Haram problem started
under him. His [Obasanjo] record is clear and is a far better record
than that of President Goodluck Jonathan when it comes to handling
insurgency and terrorism. He should please leave Obasanjo out of the
whole thing.
Number two he spoke about General Ibrahim Babangida and General
[Muhammadu] Buhari and accused them of being part of Boko Haram. Again, I
find it completely unacceptable that a man of his standing would speak
in this way. Where is his evidence? General Babangida, as far as I’m
concerned, was one of those that moved this country forward in so many
ways though there are some issues like the June 12 matter which I feel
was a mistake. But by and large his administration was a good one. Both
Obasanjo and Babangida are up there amongst the greats of this country
whether anyone likes it or not. They succeeded in fighting a civil war,
in delivering Chief EK Clark's people from Biafran occupation and they
kept Nigeria one. Since that time they have both been the main factor in
Nigerian politics and governance. Now for him [Clark] to say such
things about General Babangida is absolutely shocking and quite
unacceptable unless he can substantiate his claims with hard
evidence. I am delighted by the response that he was given by the
Babangida camp. They said that this is clear evidence of senility and
that the man [Clark] should be careful about what he said otherwise they
would sue him. I am happy they said that. And that goes for all of
us. In fact they were very charitable to him and they were very
restrained. I share their view that there must be something seriously
wrong with Chief Clark when he starts speaking like that. Where is the
evidence that links Babangida to Boko Haram? Where is the evidence that
links General Buhari, a man of absolute integrity, to Boko Haram? This
is a man that fought to keep Nigeria one in the civil war and that led
our soldiers gallantly to victory in the Chadian conflict of 1982. This
is the man that Clark is now saying is the leader of an islamist terror
group whose sole objective is to divide Nigeria and wipe out
christianity and true islam.
He spoke about Vice President Atiku Abubakar as well. Abubakar could
easily have been President of this country had there had not been issues
between him and President Obasanjo a few years ago. You know we look
back at that era now and it’s unfortunate that a man that has dedicated
his life to politics for so many years, like Atiku Abubakar, can now
have aspersions cast on his character by somebody like Chief E.K. Clark.
Again, he spoke about Asiwaju Bola Tinubu and said he [Tinubu] ''was
rude''. Apart from being one of our most respected leaders in NADECO
during the struggle against military rule, Tinubu is one of the most
reverred figures in the South western part of our country today and yet
this man gets up and declares him ''rude'' as if he is a small boy.
Tinubu is not a small boy and none of us are small boys. I am 52 this
year and Tinubu is considerably older than I am. He is a big player in
this country today whether anyone likes it or not. And once again,
Chief Clark feels that because he is close to the President, because the
President is his asopted son, he can run Tinubu down and talk down to
him and everyone else. I could go on and on. He spoke about Pastor Tunde
Bakare, a man who has shown himself to be full of courage,
integrity and strength and who has spoken his mind without any fear or
favour on matters concerning our country for a number of years now.
Bakare was very hard on the President that I served. In fact, he was
even detained by Obasanjo and I opposed it at that time and even wrote
an article about it (titled ''The Words of the Prophet'' in 2001) that
you can’t detain a man simply because he said something, on his pulpit,
which you don't like. And Bakare has been consistent from day one. He
has fought against tyranny, he has fought against corruption and his is a
strong voice in our nation. I am very proud of him and I think for
Chief E.K. Clark to say words to the effect that he [Bakare] is using
his pulpit to bash the Presidency is most unfortunate. My question
is what does he want him to use the pulpit for? Does he want him to use
it to praise the Presidency when everything is falling apart in our
country and when there is evil and injustice stalking the land? How I
wish there were more priests in Nigeria with Bakare's courage and social
conscience. He [Clark] should go and study church history to know what
real priests are supposed to be doing. He should find out why Bishops
wear red and purple shirts bellow their collars. They are supposed to
stand up against tyranny, evil and injustice. Apart from preaching the
gospel that is the calling of any church leader that is worth his salt.
To protect the poor and needy and to speak up for the weak and helpless.
Clark should find out the meaning of the concept of ''Liberation
Theology'' and learn about the role of great men like Rev. Martin Luther
King, Rev. Desmond Tutu, Rev. Aristide, Rev. Ian Paisley, Bishop Thomas
Beckett, Bishop Cranleigh, Rev. Jesse Jackson and so many other
great men of God that played a key role in the liberation of their
people over the ages. Many of them paid the supreme price for standing
up for the flock and for the ordinary people against wicked and evil
rulers. As a matter of fact that is how the church was built- on the
blood and bones of the christian martyrs. So Bakare is doing precisely
what he is expected to do but of course people like Chief Clark do not
know and can never appreciate that. He also declared some people guilty
of crimes that they have not been convicted of. People like Governors
Peter Odili, Orji Kalu, Alamesigha, Senator Joshua Dariye, Prof.
Babalola Borishade and so many others. No matter how you feel about
them these are people that are Nigerians and that have constitutional
rights which confer on them the presumption of innocence until they are
proven guilty. Is it fair, is it reasonable, is it rational for anybody
to pronounce them guilty before a court of law does so and behave in
this manner? Does Clark not know that there is a big difference between
an allegation or indictment and a conviction?
What Chief E.K. Clark has done by his numerous and
inflammatory utterances over the last ywo years is to have divided this
country more than any other elder statesman has done in the history of
Nigeria. We expected him to be a Nigerian elder statesman and not to
just be an Ijaw one. And we expected him to encourage all of us to come
together and move Nigeria forward and not to encourage division and
strife and constantly threaten anyone that is opposed to this
administration with fire, brimstone, arrest, persecution and
humiliation.
Do you think he [Clark] is speaking for himself?
I do not. My honest belief is that he is echoing the thinking of the
Presidency. That is my belief and it is self evident. He is the
adopted father of our President. He is what I call the
Godfather-in-Chief of the Jonathan administration. Chief E.K. Clark is
the father of the President and the godfather of the Nigerian Federal
Government, so anything he says must be taken very seriously by
everybody in this country. Those that say that we should just ignore him
and that he is a nuisance that is just speaking his own mind have
missed the point completely. Chief E.K. Clark is presently the
Godfather-in-Chief of the Nigerian state. And that is why I would like
to take this opportunity to challenge him to ask his son for us, that is
the President of the Federal Republic of Nigeria, Goodluck Jonathan,
what happened to the N300billion Aviation Intervention Fund that his
government established when they came in. The allegation is that the
money has disappeared, has been misapplied and has been misappropriated.
Who got the money? Where did it go? How much of it was ploughed back
into his campaign, if any? I would like Chief E.K. Clark to find out the
answers to these questions from his adopted son and tell the Nigerian
public. And I would have been more impressed if he had done that during
that show of shame at the Nigerian Institute of Advanced Legal Studies. I
would have been happier if he had told the nation where that
N300billion Aviation Intervention Fund that his son’s government set up
went to? Secondly, where is the 76 million US dollars from the
Aviation BASA Fund which has also allegedly disappeared? Where is that
money? Can Chief E.K. Clark tell us what this government intends to do
with those that took N1.7 trillion fuel subsidy? Is it only the lesser
known very young men and women that we here about that will be
prosecuted? What about the big ones? What about those that were indicted
by the Aig-Imokuede enquiry? What about the 80 billion naira Abacha
money that the Swiss authorities say they recently returned to the
Nigerian government? What about the trillions that have been
supposedly spent on security and our intelligence agencies in the last
two years through the NSA's office which does not seem to have yielded
any results? What was the money used for? What about our external debt?
How come it is now almost 12 billion USD and still borrowing when in
2007, when we left office, our foreign debt was zero? What was the money
used for? And why are we still borrowing so much money from
international monetry agencies till today? Have we not sold the future
of our children and enslaved future generartions of Nigerians to the
debt trap forever by doing so? What about our foreign reserves? When we
left officer in 2007 we had almost 100 billion USD in our
foreign reserves. Today it has been depleted to approximately 30
billion USD. What was all the money spent on? What about our Excess
Crude Account? In 2007 when we left office we left 23 billion USD in
that account and today only a fraction of that is left. Where did
all the money go? These 2007 gains were meant to be built upon and not
squandered and spent. Where did all the money go and what was it all
spent on? Chief E.K. Clark should please ask his son for us. His son was
Vice President from 2007 till 2010 and he has been Acting and
substantive President since then. He must tell us where all this money
went and what it was used for. If Chief Clark wants to talk about
allegations, let us all talk about allegations? But unlike him I have
not conferred guilt on anybody here. I am only asking questions, which
is my legitimate right as a Nigerian and I will continue to do so until
the day that God calls me home. And even Chief E.K. Clark himself,
during his own tenure as a Federal Commissioner of Information, he
should tell us a bit more about what happened during his tenure. What
happened after he left office? What happened between him and the
Obasanjo and Murtala Mohammed regime? Is it true that some of his
properties were confiscated? I am only asking questions? How clean was
he at that time? And how clean is the government that he is fathering
today? How clean is the President that he is fathering and how clean is
the President’s whole team? How far is he prepared to push Nigeria to
the brink just to protect his son and to ensure that his son continues
after 2015? How far is he prepared to divide Nigeria? How many people
have to die? He went to a conference the other day and said that the
unity of Nigeria hinges on the southern minorities and northern
minorities. Now I ask him, what about the majorities in the north and in
the south? What about the Yoruba, the Hausa/Fulani and the Igbo? Are we
not Nigerians too? Must we be constantly humiliated by him and his
people? Let me tell Chief E.K. Clark what he has managed to do which he
doesn’t even appreciate or understand. He has managed to force a
political union between the core North and the mainstream South West.
That is today's reality and we will build on it. Something that we never
thought would happen again given our history since June 12. That’s
what’s unfolding now because from his [Clark] words, he has shown
everybody that nothing matters to him except Ijaw supremacy and Ijaw
nationalism. But I am here to say that the rest of us, those that they
call Sudanese Nigerians as opposed to the Bantu Nigerians, cannot be
intimidated or wished away. The Bantu are those from the Niger Delta and
the South East and the Sudanese are those from the west, the mid-west
and the North based on the migratory patterns over thousands of years. I
am here to say that he and his co-travellers cannot exclude the
Sudanese Nigerians from the Nigerian equation. And we will not allow him
to break up this country because as far as I am concerned Chief E.K.
Clark’s agenda and the Ijaw agenda is to break Nigeria up at all costs
and for them to create their own little entity with all the oil. This
will not be allowed to happen.
Why?
Why should we allow it? 2 million people died in theNigerian civil war
to keep us one. Did they die in vain? Was their scarifice for nothing?
Nigeria has been together for many years. We are together and will
remain together. However if, God forbid, we ever decide to breakup it
will be on the basis of consensus, everybody will agree and we will go
our separate ways in a peaceful way. It will be based on mutual consent,
the terms will be clear and it will be peaceful. It will not be by
compulsion or by force and no one will walk away with the goose that
lays the golden egg and leave the rest of the country to starve. It will
be based on the free will of ALL our people and it will be quietly
negotiated. That is what we call self-determination. Any attempt to
break us up by force and against our will shall result in a terrible war
that will turn the whole of the west African sub-region into a horrific
cauldron of fire for the next fifty years.
Is that not buying into the idea of sovereign national conference?
No. I am a great believer in the Sovereign National Conference and I am
amongst those that have expressed my support and argued in support of it
for the last 20 years. It is not new to me and I believe in it
passionately. Even when I was in President Olusegun Obasanjo’s
administration I was one of those people that was regarded as a NADECO
Minister. Myself, Bashorun Akin Osuntokun, Chief Cornelius Adebayo,
Professor Julius Ihonvbere and a few others. We were NADECO Ministers
and Special Advisors to Obasanjo. I have always believed in that as
being the way out of our problems. However let me tell you what is going
on today. There are three schools of thought on this matter in Nigeria
today within the intellectual and political class. The first group
comprises of the conservatives who believe that this is a very dangerous
course and that we shouldn’t tread it. They believe that we can resolve
our issues by the provision of good governance and that no
restructuring, round table discussion or national conference is
necessary. They believe that if we have one it will lead to the
disintegration of Nigeria or just total confusion. That’s the first
group. Then there is a second group who believe that we need to have a
Sovereign National Conference but its objective would be to simply
restructure the federation, grant more autonomy to the zones, states and
regions, confirm the secularity of the state, devolve power from the
centre and establish a renegotiated union where every
nationality will be well catered for and will be made to feel feel part
and parcel of Nigeria. In this way our national cohesion and unity would
be strengthened and enhanced and Nigeria will emerge stronger and
better without the constant threat of an ugly break up hovering over our
heads. I belong to that group.
But there is a third group which also believes in the Sovereign National
Conference but, unlike that of the second group, their objective is
to ultimately dismember and destroy Nigeria. They [members of the
third group] want to use the vessel of the Sovereign National
Conference for us to come together and for them to get up and say
that they don’t want to be part of this union anymore and that no
matter what anyone else feels they are going and they are
self-determining. It doesn’t matter what you think, it doesn’t matter
what you want to do about it or what you say and if you try to stop them
then you must do so by force. They are daring the rest of Nigeria and
they are toying and playing with war. And those people, like Chief E.K.
Clark and those that are around him, particularly all those Ijaw boys
and the leaders of the Niger Delta militias that hover around him, that
is exactly what their agenda is. So we need to completely disassociate
ourselves from such people. Those of us that genuinly believe in
a Sovereign National Conference are simply trying to establish a new
deal for a better, greater, stronger and more united Nigeria. Chief E.K.
Clark's group and those that think like them believe in having a
Sovereign National Conference as an instrument and a tool for division,
discord, confusion, strife and war. I say this because, mark my words,
Nigeria cannot be divided and carved up without having a war. It is as
simple as that. That is what they are toying with. If they were students
of history and if they understood the finer intricacies of rulership
and empire, they would understand the importance of carrying people
along, the importance of ensuring that consensus is the basis for every
decision that they take, the importance of forming an all-inclusive
government, the importance of reaching out to people and the importance
of soothing the nerves of the northerners, the Yoruba, the Igbo and
carrying everybody along. They would stop talking only about themselves
and what they call ''their'' oil. Even within their own South South
zone, they find it difficult to reach out to the other tribes such
as the Uhrobo, the Itsekiri, the Isoko, the Efiks, the Ibibios and so on
and so forth. Instead of reaching out and building bridges with
others all we hear is that if anything happens to ''their'' son
President Goodluck Jonathan, they will carry the oil, they will go and
before doing so they will deal with the rest of us. That is not politics
but gangsterism and Chief E.K. Clark consistently voices that sentiment
and tendency more than any other Ijaw elder that we know today. It is
unfortunate that I have to speak about a man that is an elder statesman
and that has been on this planet for 85 years in such terms but it’s
about time somebody told the truth and that’s why I am speaking this
way.
Are you speaking for yourself or for a group?
First of all you can be rest assured that a lot of people share my view
but I am not holding myself as anybody’s spokesman. I speak for myself
but I assure you that, with 22 years of politics behind me, I am not a
spring chicken in this business. I have paid my dues and I have suffered
persecution, misrepresentation, betrayal, deceit and all manner of
wickedness from evil and powerful men over the years. I have lived in
exile and I have seen all sorts of things. I have seen Presidents come
and go. I have seen those that seek to destroy others and jail others
unjustly suddenly drop dead. I am telling you that I speak from a
position of experience and knowledge and I am saying that the way people
feel in this country today is that they have had enough of these
threats, bad governance, killings, bombings, fear, division and
insecurity. They have had enough of the kind of leadership that this
government is providing. They have had enough of Chief
E.K. Clark's obsession for playing to the public gallery, his threats,
his divisive statements, his sabre-rattling and his
continuos insults. They believe that it is time for this government to
get down to some hard work and move this country forward if it is
capable of doing so and if it is not it is time for President Goodluck
Ebele Jonathan to resign. Whether this government likes to hear it or
not millions of people feel that way.
Still on security situation in the country, there seems to be a
measure of reluctance on the part of Nigeria and the United States
government to designate Boko Haram as a terrorist organization, how do
you respond?
I think that action is another failing of our government. Ultimately the
Americans are the ones that are responsible for what they do or what
they do not do and I think it’s very shortsighted of them not to label
Boko Haram as a terrorist organization. I mean they [Boko Haram] are
killing people night and day and they are indeed terrorists in every
true sense of the word. And why the Obama administration would not
label them as terrorists, I really don’t know. What it means, as
President the President of CAN [Christian Association of Nigeria,
Pastor Ayo Oritshejafor] said so eloquently before the American Congress
the other day, is that they [Americans] obviously value Nigerian lives
less than they do Western and American ones. Even the Congressional
Commitee in America were alarmed that the White House and the US State
Department had not seen it fit to label Boko Haram a terrorist
organization. I believe that they have made a mistake, I think that they
are short-sighted and I think that they will live to regret it.
Why do you think the Nigerian government is reluctant over this issue?
Fear and weakness. This government, as far as I am concerned, is
terrified of Boko Haram. They are terrified of fighting them in a
vigorous and lively manner and they are frightened of the consequence of
labeling them as a terrorist organization. They feel that once that
happens and America labels Boko Haram a terrorist organization, it will
impact on its own popularity in the northern part of the country as it
would be seen as an anti-northern act and it will result in the loss
of votes in 2015. And that is the most ridiculous and most senseless
calculation that anyone can make. If you want votes in 2015, do
something about Boko Haram today. If you want to stay in power post
2015, crush Boko Haram, provide security, provide strength and
provide courageous leadership. Stand up as a true C-in-C. Label them as
terrorists and fight them into the ground and don't be begging them and
telling the Americans ‘please don’t upset them by calling them
terrorists’. If President Goodluck Jonathan does not rise up to this
challenge and do something about Boko Haram, God will raise another
person in His own time and way to deliver Nigeria from these people and
the evil that they represent.
NigerianVillageSquare.
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