Former Edo State Governor, Prof. Oserheimen Osunbor, in this interview with Daily Sun, says the leadership in Nigeria has to raise the bar of governance to help the citizens make meaning of the nation’s independence. He spoke on several other issues. IHEANACHO NWOSU met with him and presents the excerpts.
Many people feel that the 52nd anniversary of Nigeria is not worth celebrating. What is your take on this, considering the deteriorating standard of living of Nigerians?
Well, there are many people, who believe that it is not worth celebrating while others feel that it is good to always reflect. I personally believe that October 1 deserves to be marked. The next question from there is how elaborate should an event be marked? You can either celebrate an event on a large scale or in a low keyed manner.
Sometimes, you mark 40th, 50th, 60th or 70th but if you are celebrating birthdays like 43rd, 26th or 66th, there is nothing to really celebrate.
At this point in time, are we celebrating it on a big scale? We did that when we attained golden jubilee some two years ago on a big scale and this could be celebrated on a small scale of course. That is my personal view.
But a situation where there is unemployment, insecurity, terrorism, corruption in high places is there any point celebrating it?
Again, people surprise me when they say government is not doing anything. For example, when government started an intervention scheme to save the lives of pregnant women to reduce maternal deaths, people started saying government should have looked at other areas like malaria. The question is should government shut its eyes on other sectors when there are a variety of things that should be done? You have to consider how much resources that should be deployed into different sectors because governance is all embracing. What is important is if you consider the number of pregnant women dying which is alarming when compared to other places, and people still argue that it is a displaced programme. On the issue of national security, I agree with you that government should do something. But let me go back to your fist question where you mentioned that the situation of Nigerians was worst than the previous years. Nigerians now have more access to communications via the telephone. There is greater access to education than the previous years particularly in the last 12 years of democratic governance in the country. I equally understand that electricity generation is on the increase. I understand that government is building more plants nationwide. Some of these infrastructure were left to die in the 30 years of military rule and the infrastructure became dilapidated. There is government interventions in all spheres so when I hear people say we are worse off, I think we are better off. I know we earned so much from oil which is the mainstay of our economy, and would have invested more. But more of the resources went into private pockets. This is because we have not gotten the kind of leadership some countries are blessed with.
Such countries have gone far ahead of Nigeria. We suffered a lot of retardation due to military incursion into civil administration. We cannot keep the pace, especially with the Asian countries but we are making progress.
Now people are talking about corruption. During the military rule, can you dare talk about corruption?
People are talking about the implementation of the 2012 budget can you talk about budget implementation during the military era? You just cast your mind back to the military era. So when people are talking about corruption now, it is because you can now scrutinize things unlike the military era. You remember that during the military era, adulterated fuel was imported into the country nobody voiced out anything but now under democracy people can ask questions .
But it is being argued in some quarters that state Governors do not obey court orders thereby making the jobs of judges more difficult. What was your experience like when you were Governor?
As a lawyer I respect the rule of law a great deal and as a Governor I never disobeyed any court order. I told you my contributions in the Senate and during my time I obeyed all court orders. Again, we should not generalize, some Governors do obey court orders. Again there are Governors who benefited from the judiciary who do not respect court orders. So it is true that there are many Governors who do not respect court orders.
What is your take on the current insecurity in the country where Boko Haram and other criminal activities have led to killings and destruction of property in the last 18 months?
I quite agree with the heightened level of insecurity in the country in the past two years precisely 2010. It is a matter of serious concern because no country can develop where there is no peace and there is constant fear. Now, people are even scared to go to the market and even churches, the mosques are not exempted too. You can’t be sure that you will go to the market, and come back with your limbs or life complete. We must not ignore it. At the Federal level we must not ignore it and at the states and Local Government levels, the same thing applies.
We are at the path of winning the war and as you are aware, you cannot attain 100 per cent security and the policy of liberty is eternal vigilance. I am an optimist and very optimistic about the future of Nigeria. On whether Nigeria will be able to survive, we have always survived right from the time of wetie in the Western Region. Even at the peak of the civil strife people had thought Nigeria will disintegrate but we survived it. During the reign of Abacha, people had thought we may not survive but we survived it, and even at times in the Senate we thought along that line but somehow Nigeria has managed to survive its tribulations. We have always pulled through. We had always survived as we had done in the past and find lasting solutions to these destabilising factors and remained one indivisible entity. Education will go a long way to help us solve these problems, education is central to what we are doing once we have sufficient education nationwide we will surmount the insurmountable.
What is your take on the creation of state police?
In my personal opinion, there is need for devolution of power, the Federal should devolve some powers to the states, that is the principle I will support not state police we are not ripe for that now. If you look at Federal institutions and compare them with state institutions there is no doubt that the Federal institutions far better. The Nigeria Police is a Federal institution, I do not think any state can set up police that will be comparable to Federal police both in standard and quality.
The National Assembly at the Federal level fare better than the state legislature . At the state level, the legislators dare not ask the kind of questions the Federal legislators ask the President. Here at the Federal level, the members elect their principal officers internally but at the state level it is the Governors who decide not the members. Look at the educational sectors, unity schools are better than state owned schools, look at the Federal Polytechnic they are better than state owned polytechnics and the Federal universities are better than state owned universities. Also I do not think anybody can compare state electoral commissions to INEC. Take a look at elections conducted by INEC in terms of credibility, fairness and transparency when compared to elections conducted by state electoral commissions. The relationship between the Federal Government and the states is far better than the relationship between the states and Local Governments. The Federal Government releases funds directly to the states but monies that comes to the local governments are pocketed and expended as the Governor pleases and many other areas.
Another disturbing area is that if you decide to float a state police in the 36 states of the federation, and all are importing arms and ammunition into the country for their police force is that the kind of thing we want to encourage.
Look t this scenario, supposing a group of states within a part of the country have police force and they had procured ammunition and the Governors are in opposition and there is a clash between those police controlled by those states can you imagine what it will snowball into and what is the jurisdiction of the state will it be co-terminus to others.
So these are constitutional issues that needed to be addressed. People are looking at Governors intervention but I am looking at how to overcome it. If a local police makes an arrest can the offender be tried in a Federal High Court.
The problems are not insurmountable but they will require a lot of efforts at amending our constitution and expending our time and resources on such details at this point in time. I believe that if the constitution and the rule if law is allowed to work properly there will be no need for it.
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