Professor Uche Uko Uche is a professor of Law at the University of London. He is also a visiting lecturer at the Nigerian Institute of International Affairs, NIIA. In this interview he spoke on the nation’s judiciary, especially on the issue of corruption that has tainted the institution, the legal profession and standard of legal education in the country.
Excerpts:
What is your assessment of the nation’s judiciary, especially against the background of the allegation that politicians have corrupted the institution?
I will give you two interesting examples. One totally unrelated to issue of law practice. There is this particular priest that came into church and said, “may the peace of the Lord be with you” and the Church responded, “and with you also”. Then priest tapped the microphone and said, “something is wrong with this microphone” and the Church responded, “and with you also”.
A group of law firms in international law practice held a meeting in South Africa. I was the only African at the meeting. So they ask me what I felt about what was going on. I then told them that if you are sitting in the reassuring safety of air-conditioned office and you gets a letter telling you that there is a contract which had been awarded and performed and about $60 million and because of difficulty in getting the money.
And you are told that if you can get the money out you will get $25 million commission, and if you accept such an offer, then you’re part of it because there is nothing you have done to deserve such an amount. That tells the story of who is collaborating with who.
As a Professor of Law, how then does it make you feel when you hear allegations of corrupt practices among top members of the judiciary?
Naturally, I feel terrible, it shouldn’t be the case. When you are having a white shirt on and there is a drop of blue ink on it, it becomes a soiled shirt. It may just be a drop but it is no longer a white shirt. That drop disqualifies it from being a white shirt. So, one mistake from the judiciary could easily dent the image of the judiciary.
It should never be the case particularly if you want to be taken seriously in any encounter between two people. You have to be above board, you have to be reliable, you have to be dependable. It should not be because the other man is related to you or he has met you in other capacity or he is a member of your club and you want to favour him.
*Professor Uche Uko Uche
Still on the issue of corruption in the judiciary, some have argued for instance that serving judges should be exempted from adjudicating on election petition matters. Do you agree?
I don’t see why not but the local problem is the capacity of judges and our system of administration of justice. It has not been fully computerized. People who are writing these things by longhand, it takes a long time and they get tried. If you have so many cases and few judges then you make rooms for people to get adjournments. So, a case that should have been done within a year will go on for eight years. It is this type of long delays that make people feel there should be special courts.
What is your position on calls for increase in retirement age of serving judges?
Sometimes we forget the fact that the pressure on the judges and the way they record court proceedings is telling on the health of those judges. Many of them before they get to the age of 65 are already tired. And when people are saying their retirement age should be increased to 70 or 80. Then it is not the same way we look at Lord Denning of this world.
We are putting two incompatible systems. Lord Denning was a very eminent judge in England. Of cause we have our local Denning; we have very good judges here in Nigeria too. If I start naming them it would be unfair to the others because they are quite few. Despite the problems, these judges still perform very well. But you see, you don’t define a rule by the exemptions, you say what the rules are and the exemptions will stay as exemptions.
Do you think that retired judges should acts as consultants to public institutions or law firms?
We are back to the issue of integrity. If anybody has integrity you don’t get pushed around by anybody. If a case is on the table, there are rules that govern the case. If you are satisfied that the judge before whom the case is going to will apply the law, you wouldn’t worry.
A retired judge should not become a farmer because he has retired nor should he go to clear cement at the port. If people seek his advice or his input in anything, he should be able to give them an honest input and he should stop at that. Is not prudent for him to go the extra mile of pushing it to whoever is the judge deciding the case.
What the President of the Bar Association is saying also apply to senior members of the Bar. It is not just limited to the retired justices. Many senior members of the Bar have been seen or known to cooperate in the corruption saga rightly or wrongly. So, it not peculiar to retired judges or senior members of the Bar. Many of them are guilty of it because of this get reach quick.
How have you engaged yourself ?
Before I finished my Masters programme and register for my PhD in the University of London. I was appointed a lecturer at the University teaching law at the School of Oriental and African studies which was one of the five colleges of the University of London.
As a staff, I got seconded to the University of Nairobi, Kenya as Dean of Law originally for two years and after two years they wanted a second helping for four years and four years, they wanted some more helping for six years but I said no that I have to go back to London.
I went back to London but the pressure to come back to Nigeria was strong because my uncle who was then the first Vice Chancellor of the University of Lagos told me he was in bad health and that I should come back to Nigeria. I was visiting professor at the Institute of International Affairs for one year and in 1968 started a law practice.
What is your assessment of the country’s legal education ?
Everybody is complaining about the deteriorating state of education generally and legal education is one of them. The one that pains us most is the legal one because that is where we should make things look excellent. So, it is true that there has been this complaint about deteriorating standard of legal education in Nigeria.
How do you think this negative trend can be corrected?
Well, a number of suggestions have been touted by many people. The most current one is that of raising law to the status of a second degree. It would help in making a lot of people more knowledgeable, more mature and it would help legal education and legal practice. It would help law generally because once there is fairness and maturity at the law level, it goes round.
But, some lecturers have argued that most students that apply to study law as second degree hardly attend classes because of their jobs and businesses.
As for division between part time students and full time students, it is a matter of determination and what you really want to do. Some people who come into law after a long exposure in order areas always have a feeling that this is what they had always wanted to do but they couldn’t probably because their parents wanted them to study medicine and become doctors or wanted them to come and join them in business.
The types of people we are talking about are those who will get into the University, qualify in a degree there and then take on Law as a continuation. It is possible that they may see it as additional expense on the part of their parents but everything as a sacrifice element. If they don’t have to read law, then they don’t need to. It is not good lowering standard because you want to differ to peoples wishes. Law is an expensive outing, if you cheapen it, you cheapen the practice.
Are you in support of suggestion that Law school lecturers should be drawn from lawyers in active practice?
I do not see anything wrong in practicing law on a part-time basis when you are teaching law. I did it when I was in the University of London. It gives you an opportunity of knowing what goes on in practice. But, some people might over do it that one thing suffers because of being overdone. If you are practicing law on a full time basis and you are also a law lecturer, sometimes you could detract from your availability to your students. It is for you to decide where your loyalty lies.
Vanguard
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